Asian Flush / Asian Blush / Asian Glow Community
Discussion and anecdotes about the Asian Flush/Flush/Glow/Red Face (turning red when drinking alcohol), including using H2 blockers (e.g. Tagamet, Pepsid, Zantac) and other products to combat its effects. Hosted by Eric Cheng on http://echeng.com
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Asian Flush / Asian Blush / Asian Glow Community → Focused Discussion → H2 Blockers (Tagamet, Pepcid, Zantac, Axid)
Natifus - you seen to know alot about the cheerzhangover cure, have you tried it? if so how does it compare to other methods such as h2 blockers?
I research,test,analyze alcohol/symptoms/sensitivities/genetics. I'am asian with ALDH2*2 gene, so I do have "Asian Flush Symptoms" but to almost a non active degree. As in almost not noticeable. I have tried cheerzhangover and tested cheerzhang over/other hangover pills. They have very similar designs(if not the same). It works for hangovers! For difference in use, you want to use it as a temporary cure for the "Asian Flush". So here is a formula to help you understand how it works: X# of pills (do not exceed the maximum ammount recommended by the company), and ALDH2*2 X% gene activity, and alcohol consume, equals time when flushing occurs. So you can be drunk, and have no flushing. It does work, but as I said not for all. Pending how active your ALDH2*2 gene is, if active at all!
H2Blockers
H2blockers block histamine receptors in your stomach. Basically stopping the pumping of stomach acid. Higher amounts of histamine is also found in "beer and wine", and is known to stimulate flushing(all races). That is why some of you said you flush more, and have more dramatic effects with beer and wine. "Pepcid AC and Cimetidine" we found were the best, to surpressing Alcohol Sensitivity. Flushing, heart rate, body temp, etc.. were all significantly reduced. I can't say "histamine" is the main cause of flushing and other alcohol sensitivity, even thou it appears to be. H2Blockers are antiacids, acetaldehyde(the toxin you cant break down)is an acetic acid. Therefore the acid is neutrolized, with antiacids. Acetaldehyde is also used in cigarettes, cigarettes also highten senstivity to alcohol (Also Acetaldehyde in Alcohol&Cigarettes maybe the cause of addiction, not going into detail). There are so many factors that go into "Asian Flushing" or "Alcohol Related Sensitivities", thus the reason why the cure is so complicated. "ACETYLCHOLINE" is a nerotransmitter, and causing the subconscious mind to contract muscles. Note: Lack of "Acetylcholine" causes "alzheimers". Note:Alcohol effects the nervous system. When Acetaldehyde is introduced to your system it reacts similar to each individuals. It can spark adrenaline(a molecule that acts as a hormone and neurotrasmitter), and desensitize "Acetylchloline"(this is the reason why you forget when over drinking). Most will experience both. Stimulated Acetylchloline can cause, rapid heart rate, flushing, basically all senstivities of alcohol/alcohol related complications. Thus heavy drinkers have erectile disfunction, thus brain damage, thus interferance with nervus system. Acetylchloline is also the reason why you sweat, turn pink when you excersize,etc. Therefore I conclude that "Asian Flush" is there for not mainly caused by histamine, and Acetaldehyde plays a major role.
TIPS
Most Darker alcohol beverages contain less toxins. Try the beer "Amberbock"( has some what a coffee taste). Also try opening a beer, leaving it in the fridge(With cap on loose)for 3 days. Then try drinking it, most of you will have no flush/light flush/drink more before flushing occurs(will not go into details why). Try it these tips, should show some major improvement. ALSO! I highly recomended the Hangover pills, strickly for reasons of detoxification. Not, to cure "Asian Flush". Sorry! I do not recall many of the tips I could share right now, but keep posted. Remember your health comes first, not social life. H2Blockers can cause serious bodly harm, if instructions arent followed correctly.
TO:derr
H2 blockers will show more results than the cheerzhangover! Also if common usage over 2weeks plus, will also have dramatic after effects of abuse. H2Blockers work mainly because of blockage of histamine which triggers pumps releasing stomach acid, and neutrolizing the alcohol(acid). There are drugs costing $4,000 for couple pills, in the american market, which do temporary(as in use of one day) cure asian flush all toghter. I do not have the budget to test these drugs out, or side effect of using the drugs. Since it is new to the market. It seems not to be a good cure, simply because studies of "Asian Flush" has been going on for decades. Little results of what really causes it has shown up.
Hi, Sorry if this has already been asked, but I live in the UK and I'm not sure we get Pepcid AC here, does anyone know of a good alternative or equivalent available in Britain?
Natifus wrote:
H2Blockers are antiacids, acetaldehyde(the toxin you cant break down)is an acetic acid. Therefore the acid is neutrolized, with antiacids.
THIS IS WRONG. Build up of acetadehyde causes the asian flush because it is unable to be broken down into acetic acid and water quickly enough. H2 blockers do not break down acetaldehyde. Please check your facts!
To:nic
I have made couple errors in this post and some other post. Sorry, Ive been very busy, and do not proof-read my post befire entering them. I try my best to write in terms everyone can understand. So here is what I was trying to type. H2Bockers are antiacids, Ethanol is an acectic acid therefore neutrolized.
To:nic
H2Bockers are antiacids, Ethanol is an acectic acid therefore neutrolized.
Wrong again. Ethanol is not an acetic acid, it is an alcohol. The mechanism by which the H2 blockers work is more complex than just neutralizing an acid. Acetic acid is the harmless final product of alcohol digestion, from the original ethanol to acetaldehyde to acetic acid. I'm beginning to question if you really are a research scientist on this subject, as it seems like your knowledge of this subject is limited.
My wife suffers from this unfortunate problem and I hold a Ph.D in physical organic chemistry. Natifus, i know you are trying to help people here, but what's the point in posting wrong information? It just confuses/creates confusion for people who are suffereing the asian flush. How are you even a researcher on ethanol (the type of alcohol that gets you drunk, note there are dozens of different types of alchohols which may be fatal or make you blind) if you seem as if you have not even taken college level organic chemistry before? Ethanol is a primary alchohol which is not even considered to be in the same group as any carboxylic acid function group like acetic acid. (ethanol=CH3CH2OH; acetic acid: CH3COOH). It's as if saying X neutrolizes Y because Y=Z when Z does not exist. Think about it... it does not make sense.
Natifus wrote:To:nic
H2Bockers are antiacids, Ethanol is an acectic acid therefore neutrolized.Wrong again. Ethanol is not an acetic acid, it is an alcohol. The mechanism by which the H2 blockers work is more complex than just neutralizing an acid. Acetic acid is the harmless final product of alcohol digestion, from the original ethanol to acetaldehyde to acetic acid. I'm beginning to question if you really are a research scientist on this subject, as it seems like your knowledge of this subject is limited.
can anyone explain how pecid ac works to reduce our glow? thanks :)
Some of the information I typed it incorrect:
I will later post all the corrections, I have only posted a few corrections. Some of the information I do type, isnt transmitted, and posted incorrectly also. So I will make these corrections. Ethanol is an acetic acid. There are ways to test acids. Ethanol is not completey neutrolized with anti acids. Sorry if I do not specify greatly, I try to write in terms for everyone to understand. H2Blockers do work in complex ways, and so does your body. I can't explain how everything works! You would need more of a visual image for this. I will be returning in about 2 weeks(Sisters Wedding), and I will make all the neccessary corrections. Thank you, and sorry for the confusion. Till then have fun!
My wife suffers from this unfortunate problem and I hold a Ph.D in physical organic chemistry. Natifus, i know you are trying to help people here, but what's the point in posting wrong information? It just confuses/creates confusion for people who are suffereing the asian flush. How are you even a researcher on ethanol (the type of alcohol that gets you drunk, note there are dozens of different types of alchohols which may be fatal or make you blind) if you seem as if you have not even taken college level organic chemistry before? Ethanol is a primary alchohol which is not even considered to be in the same group as any carboxylic acid function group like acetic acid. (ethanol=CH3CH2OH; acetic acid: CH3COOH). It's as if saying X neutrolizes Y because Y=Z when Z does not exist. Think about it... it does not make sense.
Since you have a Ph.D in p.orgo, have you heard or know any details regarding asian flush and any possible cure, whether temp or perm? I am curious if this topic is being studied academically for the purpose of finding a cure.
Natifus wrote:
Goto www.cheerzhangover.com this is a hang over pill. It will also supress the "ASIAN FLUSH" pending on how many pills you take.This is not true (for me). These pills are formerly named "Rebound". I tried Rebound a year ago prior drinking but it didn't help anything to the flushing.
Natifus wrote:
Reason that some might have to quit drinking all toghter. Alcohol realated cancers and complications, can start forming in your 20's. The "hangover pill" are to help reduce the risk, and sometimes prevent future problems.If the hangover pills do help for your health but not the flushing then maybe we should consider taking it together with H2 blockers like pepcid. Any problems mixing those pills?
hi guys,
my name is paul and i am from the uk. I suffer from asian flush and have tried many things. One thing that i have noticed is i do not get the asian flush as much if i have went to the gym or a run before drinking.
I do beleive very much in the pre drink method.
Also it will affect your skin that is broken or chaved.(weak part of the skin). I have been using a very very light tanning cream (jonstons) this will give me a small amount of color but most importantly it seems to supress the flush. No one would know that it is a tanning cream as it doesnot change your complection too much . You will still feel hot and red but you wont look it.
So far this is my only solution.
PS try having a drink in your house and relax . i bet you do not get asian flush.
Any cures are welcomed.
Hey all i just wanted to find out if there are any side effects when taking pepcid a lot. Ive just turned 18 and use pepcid two since im in the UK and im on my half term holiday at the moment. Its been the greatest thing actually gettin pissed for the first time with no redness. Few nights ago actually threw up for an hour tho... basically ive bin using it each day for about a week and i do not have any pains in my stomach like some people have mentioned plus it does not seem to have reduced to effect of the pepcid, from taking it everyday. My only concern is if this is a safe method to keep doing, how bad is our breakdown of acetaldehyde which can cause cancers if let to float about in your body, and does pepcid only block this reaction or help to break down the alcohol?
This is weird. The pepcid ac has worked wonders for me, it supresses the flush completely whilst drinking. I've had about 6 or 7 beers tonight, and 6 and a half hours after taking 40mg pepcid ac, im getting a slight flush and shaking. Sure, its nowhere near as bad as without the pepcid, but i thought it was supposed to last for 12 hours? Anybody else had a similar thing happen?
Natifus
"There are drugs costing $4,000 for couple pills, in the american market, which do temporary(as in use of one day) cure asian flush all toghter. I do not have the budget to test these drugs out, or side effect of using the drugs. Since it is new to the market. It seems not to be a good cure, simply because studies of "Asian Flush" has been going on for decades. Little results of what really causes it has shown up."
Can you post any more information on this, sounds very interesting... Whats the name Etc?
30mg pepcid, two Cheerz 1 hr. prior to imbibement, then a 1 to 1 ratio of Cheerz/Beverage followed by nursing a bottle of Pedialyte when going to bed and waking up works like a goddamn charm.
I SEE I HAVE CAUSED A KOT OF CONFUSSION!
So in basic terms! "Asian Flush" isn't caused only by the inactive enzyme. This is also a theory, but a very strong theory. As in the theory "We originated from Africa". The theory was based on what we have discovered so far. So pllease try to seperate what is a fact, opnion, and theory. Every thing I have wrote, is majority based on what has been discovered. Therefore not a fact yet! Just a very strong theory. Majority of "Asian Flush" causes are theories as of today, not facts. A fact is having the inactive enzyme prones you to having the "Asian Flush". What we have discovered as of today, is that not all individuals will always have the flush. Some individuals had the flush only occur during their very first contact with alcohol, and have never had a second experience. Certain individuals have a higher tolerance to flushing, and can consume more before flushing. That is why during most testings on "Asian Flushing" individuals a placebo is added, to heighten alcohol sensitivity. To increase the symptoms, to study the reaction. Hystamine levels is a big factor on causing flushing levels, but also just a theory. Why? In some cases as in "Pre drinking" method, some individuals can consume any ammount of alcohol and not have flush symptoms. This is why "Asian Flush" is so complex to study, so many different symptoms. Also every individuals has very different levels of sensitivity. Flushs are pink,red,purpal. Flushs can effect only the head, also fully body, also found in patchs in certain areas of the body. I do not give out temp cures that works for all, I give out things for you to try out to see if it can help you out. My information about the temp test cures, I seperate completely from what I research at work. For when I do test individuals, I have certain procedures I have to follow. Hence overlooked by safety,public health,ATI,etc...I'am not allowed to release any information of the studies, unless the information has already been approved for release. I'am also bound to my contract, not to socialize about work related research. Therefore I cannot display a lot of information. The temp cures I give you are my strong theories, which are seperated from my research. Hope this helps with the confusion, if not confuse you more.
I also stated that "Asian Flush" is complex. In strong theory from not only I. Multiple body factors come into play. So till the cure is found! I give you some safe methods that will help some with temp/long term cures. So you might want to take couple days off. I said every individual differs, so these I display different test you can do on yourself to see how it effects you. I do warn hyper sensitive individuals to please refrain from these self test. I will not go into full detail of my theories, for it is complex. My personal theory: Some do over come the flush, by over riding some natural responses. I WILL BE HERE IN THIS FORUM FRIDAY NIGHT OCTOBER 28, 2005, TO HELP ALL INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE SERIOUS ABOUT TESTING THEMSELVES FOR SELF CURE. No Drugs, and this a personal study of mine, not work related. YOU CAN DO THESE SELF TESTS ON FRIDAY OR ON YOUR OWN TIME. I also ask you to choose which test you're going to do, if to be here on friday(1800-0200)West Coast Time. Please post which test you choose to do. PREPERATION FOR THE TEST:I ask all of you to buy a 12pack of any type beer, PREFER DARKER ALE, NOT LIGHT BEER. TEST 1: Deprive yourself with 30 hours of sleep. TEST 2:Vegetable,milk,chicken,water,fruit diet for 2 days. TEST 3:A relaxation test. I will inform you what to do while you consume alcohol. TEST 4: Pre drink a bottle/can of beer 3 hours ahead of test, or during test. TEST 5:Special test, I will inform you of instructions to follow if here on friday.
PLEASE PARTICIPATE IF POSSIBLE:NOTE this test is done on body function, and some will be able to beat the asian flush. Basically I'am going to give you instructions to follow, which will throw your body off its normal function. So please spread the word! Everyone will benefit, so please be here. This Friday October 28, 2005 1800(4pm)-0200(2am). Thank you!
why is it at a set time - why cant you put it up and let people do it whenever?
ANSWER to guest:This test is based on body function, and based on your reaction. Instruction will be given "Based" on your reaction to alcohol. Why not put it up, and let people do whatever? Mainly because your mind more focused on reaction/less reaction/no reaction, and not focused on understanding the symptoms. In a semi-controlled enviroment I can learn a better sloution for each individual. For some the symptoms will remain, due to extreme hyper sensitivity. I'am willing also to push the date further back, if needed. I'am not sure of the next date, but it will fall on another friday. I also will need more participation, the more individuals the more results. So do please let me know what you prefer. Your subconscious controls your body, and half of the test is to attempt to not stimulate the flush reaction.
TEST 1: Deprive yourself with 30 hours of sleep.
I really don't see how this is practical, or how it could possibly work. I might just try the pre-drink method, and if that doesn't work i'll stick with pepcid.
TEST 1: 30 hours of no sleep. 30 hours is the time where some functions of the body are shut down. Your body slows down, and oxygen is deprived from reaching the brain. With low ammounts of oxygen, your subconcios mind reacts differen't. Some of you who do this will probally not make it to 2am, due to lack of sleep and alcohol sensitivity. Its also an attempt to deprogram the subconcious mind from causing flushing(expanding blood vessels). Some of you will be able to drink more before flushing, if not at all. I will explain more on Friday! Whoever does choose to partivipate, please let me know.
TEST 1: 30 hours of no sleep. 30 hours is the time where some functions of the body are shut down. Your body slows down, and oxygen is deprived from reaching the brain. With low ammounts of oxygen, your subconcios mind reacts differen't. Some of you who do this will probally not make it to 2am, due to lack of sleep and alcohol sensitivity. Its also an attempt to deprogram the subconcious mind from causing flushing(expanding blood vessels). Some of you will be able to drink more before flushing, if not at all. I will explain more on Friday! Whoever does choose to partivipate, please let me know.
Ok... but why would anyone want to go through not sleeping for 30 hours, just to start drinking, and on top of that however long you drink for! As i said, its not practical! I do appreciate what you are doing Natifus, but some of the things you have proposed do not make sense.
TOMMORROWS TEST ARE CANCELED:Due to low numbers.
To jonese26:not make sense? Yes! I understand. I don't expect anyone to make sense of this, I said how complex it is. Sorry very busy today, so another time.
wow read everything. hopefully Natifus is the man with the cure!
I WON'T BE HERE TODAY, TO HELP!
I'am sorry to all! To sam: I'am not the man with the cure! The cure is going to take more than the effort of 1 person. Stem cell research maybe the fastest cure for asian flush, and a perminent one. Do not get this wrong with cloning ones self. It is used to clone body parts! As sick as it sounds for many, they do not understand what stem cell is. It is "Spare body parts" ,but those body parts are from your direct DNA(meaning its you). To clone your liver and fix the defect, will allow your liver to produce the proper enzyme. The liver will fit perfectly with your body, and all thats left is recovery time. This will allow you to have a normal life, without pain,drugs, and no change in life style(besides you being able to drink). Pills and shots work temporary! The defect will always remain, and all of you are trying to free yourselves from this. What I'm offering is a different approach to surpress the symptoms, not a cure. The science of today has changed from a long time ago, most researchs are programmed to operate in certain manners. I'am a researcher of risk! To take big jumps, the risks have to be taken. To obtain knowledge not to ones understanding, risks have to be taken. Stem cell research is a risk, but a risk that will help many to obtain what they have lost, or not have yet. They say nature has its course and it should not be tampered with, I say its 2005 and we're in an ever so dramatic changing world. We are not gods, but people who ask to be normal. With this said, all of you should weigh what the cure of "asian flush" means to you.
Asian Flush / Asian Blush / Asian Glow Community → Focused Discussion → H2 Blockers (Tagamet, Pepcid, Zantac, Axid)
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