• Registered: 2010-01-01
  • Posts: 4

Re: H2 Blockers (Tagamet, Pepcid, Zantac, Axid)

ken1983 wrote:
KMan wrote:
StopRanting wrote:

10. FINAL WORRIES AND QUESTIONS UNANSWERED

In technical language:

1. Kman made some particularly good points about the fact that H2-blockers may not actually be slowing the metabolism of alcohol (thereby allowing acetaldehyde metabolism to keep up) but instead simply targeting the histamines that are produced as a result of elevated acetaldehyde levels.
2. This suggestion was made in light of the fact that ethanol levels in subjects were not elevated despite taking famotidine. However, these studies are from some time ago – Kman if you are still around, could you possibly look up some recent ones perhaps circa 2005-2008?
3. If this is indeed the way the famotidine is operating, perhaps it is a dangerous drug as drinkers will still have elevated acetaldehyde level but simply not realize.
4. A side note that was worth noting is that according to Kman’s research, it is likely ranitidine is ‘better’ for you as alcohol levels were increased in subjects when taking ranitidine suggesting it inhibits the enzyme alcohol dehydrogenase.

Lovely summary. And as requested, I have crawled out of my hole to give you some updates....

There are 2 recent reports which confirm my earlier position. Both by the same author.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1920 … d_RVDocSum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1920 … d_RVDocSum

Essentially, I think he summarises old info.

Firstly he confirms that some H2 Blockers have an effect on ADH (the enzyme that breaks down acetaldehyde). And again Ranitidine is named. But this is nothing new.  Old studies as far back as 1991 confirm "at therapeutic doses in vivo, the degree of inhibition by cimetidine and ranitidine should be significant and comparable, that by nizatidine should be smaller, and that by famotidine should be negligible." So we know for a fact that Ranitidine has SOME inhibitory effect on ADH but not famotidine (Pepcid). The second report states:

"Increased blood acetaldehyde resulting from abnormalities of alcohol dehydrogenase genotype in the Orientals population can release histamine from mast cells and basophiles, which induces the hypersensitivity reactions (flushing). These reactions may be blocked by antihistamine drugs. H2-receptor antagonists influence on the ethanol metabolism by the inhibition of the activity of alcohol metabolizing enzymes in the stomach and liver."

So essentially, this author surmises that the H2 blockers work by inhibiting ADH. Now, I don't think he has the whole picture, or at least the whole picture relating to famotidine. Since he himself and other studies have found that famotidine has no or negligible effect on ADH, there must be some other mechanism by which famotidine works. Whatever it is, as far as the studies show, there is nothing to show that famotidine stops the production of acetaldehyde. It may stop the symptoms (the histamine release), but not the production of acetaldehyde, which is the killer carcinogen.

Another poster, nohxtk1, seems to have come on board recently, and he is a med student. He seems to share my view, and would probably be in a better position, with his training, to find more studies, or explain things.

So let me continue my nagging crusade of warning all of you not to get carried away. Even ranitidine doesn't completely inhibit ADH, and if anything just lowers levels of acetaldehyde (not sure to what extent).

Alcohol is dangerous to asian flushers.  The link to cancer is very very clearly established.

Conviva sounds promising though!

hi guys, has anyone here taken both pepcid and zantac at the same time? i've scanned through the posts and don't think i saw any info on it. would be interesting to know if this is more effective and more importantly, whether there is any known adverse health effects of taking two different types of H2 blockers at the same time.

On Kman's point above, was also thinking that since there is some evidence that zantac may be slightly better (in terms of our health) as it actually lowers acetaldehyde levels while pepcid does not, might it not be better for us to take zantac as well, even for those of us who dont' get any effects from it?

I don't think that taking two H2-blockers will result in improved outcome.  I do think it will result in weight loss of your wallet, however.

With regard to the statement above, the some H2-blockers may block the action of ADH (ALCOHOL dehydrogenase), but this will actually result in slower conversion of ethanol to acetaldehyde.  You seem to be confusing this with the second stage enzyme aldehyde dehydrogenase.  Also, take these quoted studies with a grain of salt.  You do not know how scientifically sound the study was unless you are able to look at their materials/methods and results.  Therefore, their conclusions may not even be correct.

1,052 Reply by canasianone (edited by canasianone 2010-01-15 15:25:42)

  • Registered: 2010-01-15
  • Posts: 1

Re: H2 Blockers (Tagamet, Pepcid, Zantac, Axid)

I am new to the boards and just want to see if anyone had the same problems as me.  I took Pepcid AC a ton in college.  I went out about 3 nights a week and took it every one of those days.  After a while I noticed that Pepcid AC stopped working as well.  I was pretty consistent about it too, always taking it 45 minutes before drinking too.  I decided to double the dosage whenever I went out and that started working again.  A few weeks later though that dosage stopped working as well.  I even tried 3 or 4 pills and they did nothing.  I also noticed that if I forgot to take Pepcid before drinking, my tolerance would be cut in half and I would get sick much much easier.  Needless to say, I have since stopped taking Pepcid AC altogether as I was beginning to get worried about my health.  I was taking extra-strength Pepcid and taking 4 of those at one time simply can't be good for you.  At about this time too, I started becoming lactose intolerant.  I used to be fine drinking glasses and glasses of milk but now I could no longer.  I would get stomach and intestinal pains on top of other things.  I asked my really intelligent med school buddy if there could be a connection and he said it was a possibility. 

I am basically asking two questions:

1.  Can habitually taking Pepcid AC before drinking make your body dependent on Pepcid AC to process alcohol?

2.  Can taking too much Pepcid AC make you lactose intolerant?

FYI my solution now has been to pre-game earlier as I find that after an hour or so my flush will be reduced enough to the point where I am willing to go out.

1,053 Reply by jenn

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Re: H2 Blockers (Tagamet, Pepcid, Zantac, Axid)

i am so fed up of trying to figure out what i'm supposed to do to ensure i get minimal blushing. the timing, which foods i can consume, what beverages i can drink, etc. because every time it's different and i'm beginning to not care anymore. i discovered this site about a year or so back but this is my first post. i've been taking pepcid ac for about a year now. i don't have any of the other problems a lot of you have mentioned, not that i've noticed or been too concerned with anyway, i just get really red. everyone comments on it, i just tell them i get warm easily. which is true, but obviously that isn't the real reason at the time for why i resemble a beetroot.

i've found the pepcid has worn off to be honest, so i may try some others pills that have been mentioned. i noticed one post mentioned fast food, and i recall one night about a month or so back i had eaten a mcdonalds and that night i wasn't so red. i always take 2 x 20mg with a bottle of water, i have my first drink an hour or two later and take it slow, and then continue. i don't get red with my first few drinks when i'm at home but then when i go out and order my first drink, i just get red straight away. it worked amazingly when i first tried pepcid but like i said, it doesn't have the same effect anymore. i think it's worse in clubs though because it gets so stuffy from all the people so that doesn't really help.

i get so angry that we have to put up with this, why can't we be normal?! i hate it when my friends are always wanting pictures too when we're out, they get annoyed with me because i never want to be in them, so then they just think i'm being difficult, but i'd rather them think that than know my embarrassing problem :/ i think the majority of my family have asian red but my two cousins who are sisters don't have it, i'm so effing jealous. they can drink and drink and drink and don't even have a hint of redness in their cheeks. i also have a filipino friend who doesn't have asian red at all, he can really knock back the drinks. i hate him, lol. anyway, all i wanted to do was rant. it's nice, if that's even the right word, knowing there are other people with this problem since i don't speak to anyone about it. that's all for now!

  • Registered: 2007-04-16
  • Posts: 3

Re: H2 Blockers (Tagamet, Pepcid, Zantac, Axid)

Sorry, this may have been discussed in this forum but not sure if this problem has been covered.  Not only do I get the flush and pounding heart badly, but that's not the worst part.  The worst symptoms are splitting headache and I get so sleepy that I can't even focus or keep my head of the bar.  Literally pass out wherever I am.  The pepcid doesn't help for any of that and it's worse than the blush because I can't even stay out long enough to have a good time.

Does anyone have advice?

1,055 Reply by fiametta

  • Registered: 2010-01-20
  • Posts: 1

Re: H2 Blockers (Tagamet, Pepcid, Zantac, Axid)

Can someone please give me some advice on how much pepcid ac I should take before drinking? I'm female and 110lbs, 5'6". Would 1 maximum strength tablet be enough?

1,056 Reply by D.K.

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Re: H2 Blockers (Tagamet, Pepcid, Zantac, Axid)

Hey Guys,

I too suffer from the asian glow...what's been working for me is "pre-gaming" (which most of you have probably heard of) By "pre-gaming" I mean drinking until you get the full-blown asian glow symptoms, then wait however long it takes for the pounding heart and hot face etc. to subside (usually about a solid 2 hours for me). Once the symptoms have subsided, I can drink however much I want, and the pounding heart etc. doesn't come back. I know it's not very practical, but try it next time if you can.

The thing I want to know is how this works. I know that we are deficient acetaldehyde dehydrogenase, which causes a build-up of acetaldehyde (which I am aware is toxic) when we drink, which in turn causes the nasty symptoms of asian glow. Why does "pre-gaming" work? Are our bodies able to release natural anti-histamines to combat the acetaldehyde, thus simply masking the effects of acetaldehyde? Or are we actually adapting to the increased acetaldehyde build-up by increasing acetaldehyde dehydrogenase function, thus increasing acetaldehyde metabolism? (I hope the latter is the case lol).

Furthermore, I find that continuous moderate drinking (1-2) drinks a day improves the symptoms of asian glow to a certain extent. I've heard others say this as well. I am very curious to as how this works. Why are the symptoms improving, and most importantly, is it safe?

I know I have a lot of questions that won't be able to be answered lol. But if anyone has any ideas, I'd love to hear them.

Cheers!

1,057 Reply by naf

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Re: H2 Blockers (Tagamet, Pepcid, Zantac, Axid)

In the conclusion thread by StopRanting (thanks for it) it says 40mg Famotidine is recommended for my weight, although the direction for Pepcid says no more than 2 pills (20mg) per 24 hours. Is it ok to take 4x10mg pills anyway?

1,058 Reply by kon990

  • Registered: 2010-02-16
  • Posts: 3

Re: H2 Blockers (Tagamet, Pepcid, Zantac, Axid)

naf wrote:

In the conclusion thread by StopRanting (thanks for it) it says 40mg Famotidine is recommended for my weight, although the direction for Pepcid says no more than 2 pills (20mg) per 24 hours. Is it ok to take 4x10mg pills anyway?

Yea a lot of ppl on the forum seem to be taking 2 x 20mg pills at the same time which I don't really feel comfortable doing since the box explicitly tells you not too, so if I have to I'd take 1x20mg (or 2x10mg) 1 hour before drinking and then the second set half an hour later (half hour before drinking). That way the consumption is at least spread out somewhat.

A question for long time Pepcid AC users:

I have been using pepcid MAX (20 mg) tablets maybe once every 1-3 weeks for about a year and I can tell it's only working at about 80% as good as it used to work. How long has it taken your body to build up a tolerance and is it possible to stop taking it for a period of time and loose that tolerance?

  • Registered: 2008-03-11
  • Posts: 8

Re: H2 Blockers (Tagamet, Pepcid, Zantac, Axid)

Has anyone heard of the product Eredicane?  Apparently this product is made for asain flush suffers aswell with people who just overall flush when stressed, being active, shaving, etc.  Ive done little research and this sounds pretty good.  You take 1 pill with food 1 hour before your first drink.  If anyone has tried this let us fellow asians know how it was.

  • Registered: 2010-03-16
  • Posts: 1

Re: H2 Blockers (Tagamet, Pepcid, Zantac, Axid)

Hi,

I've been doing a lot of research on this. Now I didn't start getting a red face until my second year at college, thats when I started noticing it. So I started taking pepcid ac an it worked. I ran out one night but still never got a red face without the pepcid ac. I never got a red face for about a month, then it started again. Thats the short version. I've been trying pepcid ac again but it doesn't seem to work anymore. I'm still experimenting on times though.

Anyway, I've been doing a lot of research on this. An I found out that alcohol causes vasodialation. Which means the blood vessels become relaxed an expand. There are different foods/drinks and other things that trigger this.

Ok heres the important part. There are food/drinks that cause Vasoconstriction. Which is the opposite of vasodialation. Caffine is an example.

Anyway, tomorrow i'm going to buy coffee and energy drinks. The first night Ill try just coffee with alcohol. The next time ill try energy drinks with alcohol.

Ill post the results when Im done.

1,061 Reply by posess28

  • Registered: 2010-01-15
  • Posts: 2

Re: H2 Blockers (Tagamet, Pepcid, Zantac, Axid)

isnt that like take a vodka redbull? lol.. i get the same redness... pregame works every time for me!

1,062 Reply by Jemima (edited by Jemima 2010-04-17 06:01:19)

  • Registered: 2010-04-17
  • Posts: 3

Re: H2 Blockers (Tagamet, Pepcid, Zantac, Axid)

Hi everyone, me too I'm so sick of my social life being sabotaged by this predicament. For the past 10 years I've actively avoided functions where heavy drinking has been on the cards. And on the rare occasion I do go to bars, I have to plan ahead to make sure I'm wearing plenty of foundation to cover some of the redness, and order mixed drinks with half shots which I drink slowly...most of which I don't finish anyway. On occasions at restaurants/bars I've asked the bartender/waiter to tip out my drink whilst my date was in the bathroom, and on other occasions where it was logistically possible, have taken my drink into the bathroom with me where I tipped most of it out! The worst part of it all is that I can't get drunk and have a good time like everybody else. I stumbled across this forum today whilst researching "Asian Flush", as while I'm not Asian, still suffer from exactly the same symptoms. I have a date next week with a guy I really like, and I know a couple of drinks will be in order, and so I intend to stock up on Zantacs (I'm in Australia so no Pepcid ACs till I get my hands on a prescription) and give these pills a go. I don't think a big night out will ever be realistic/healthy for me, all I want is to be able to have one or two hassle free drinks in social situations where its absolutely necessary. I would give almost anything to be able to drink normally. Sorry for sounding so negative - I know there are many people out there with "disabilities"/health issues much worse, and thanks everyone, especially Eric for this wonderful forum. J x

1,063 Reply by Jemima

  • Registered: 2010-04-17
  • Posts: 3

Re: H2 Blockers (Tagamet, Pepcid, Zantac, Axid)

Got myself some Zantac and did a test run tonight at dinner for my date next week - popped a pill 2.5 hrs after eating a snack. At the restaurant I ordered a glass of white wine (usually a strict no go for me - the redness & heat will come on after 1/4 of a glass). Had my first sip approx 45 mins after popping the pill - drank the first 1/4 slowly & felt fine, slightly flushed but no redness whatsoever. Then it got tricky cos the food arrived & I stopped drinking. After my meal I felt really hot so I rushed to the bathroom to check if I was red. Thankfully I wasn't, but I popped another pill, then drank another 1/2 of the wine. For the rest of the evening, I had a slight headache, but no redness, so all in all, I declare it a win :)

1,064 Reply by jasko

  • Registered: 2006-05-05
  • Posts: 70

Re: H2 Blockers (Tagamet, Pepcid, Zantac, Axid)

WhatsTheCure wrote:

Hi,

I've been doing a lot of research on this. Now I didn't start getting a red face until my second year at college, thats when I started noticing it. So I started taking pepcid ac an it worked. I ran out one night but still never got a red face without the pepcid ac. I never got a red face for about a month, then it started again. Thats the short version. I've been trying pepcid ac again but it doesn't seem to work anymore. I'm still experimenting on times though.

Anyway, I've been doing a lot of research on this. An I found out that alcohol causes vasodialation. Which means the blood vessels become relaxed an expand. There are different foods/drinks and other things that trigger this.

Ok heres the important part. There are food/drinks that cause Vasoconstriction. Which is the opposite of vasodialation. Caffine is an example.

Anyway, tomorrow i'm going to buy coffee and energy drinks. The first night Ill try just coffee with alcohol. The next time ill try energy drinks with alcohol.

Ill post the results when Im done.

Any results?

  • From: Australia
  • Registered: 2006-08-15
  • Posts: 47

Re: H2 Blockers (Tagamet, Pepcid, Zantac, Axid)

dizzyhytes wrote:

Sorry, this may have been discussed in this forum but not sure if this problem has been covered.  Not only do I get the flush and pounding heart badly, but that's not the worst part.  The worst symptoms are splitting headache and I get so sleepy that I can't even focus or keep my head of the bar.  Literally pass out wherever I am.  The pepcid doesn't help for any of that and it's worse than the blush because I can't even stay out long enough to have a good time.

Does anyone have advice?

sorry but i think you might have a really bad reaction to alcohol... try taking an anithistamine as well....

  • From: Australia
  • Registered: 2006-08-15
  • Posts: 47

Re: H2 Blockers (Tagamet, Pepcid, Zantac, Axid)

hey guys,... its has been so long so i posted on this website.... Well im 29 now and i guess i been using famo for about 4 years now.

for me it still works.... i guess im lucky.. i still take 2 x 40mg and im ok. I do drink my first drink really slowly though. soemtimes i take 3 if im going to have a big night and i really dont want anyone to see that im flushed. i also havent experience any sideaffects that some people here post about... lactose intolerant? no... hair loss? no.. i do eat chiller food these days!! heheh

anyway guys, keep persevering... i know its hard, but im sure eventually there will be a cure.

hey that reminds me im low on famo... need to purchase some through ebay! i love you ebay!!

  • From: Australia
  • Registered: 2006-08-15
  • Posts: 47

Re: H2 Blockers (Tagamet, Pepcid, Zantac, Axid)

jasko wrote:

^Interesting. I've never tried Zantac.... maybe I'll give it a whirl sometime.

For those of you that keep up with this thread...... to keep it semi active, let me ask you this. How do you guys handle situations where you're not prepared to drink. IE: you haven't taken your Pepcid or Zantac or whatever you take.

What do you do in a social situation like that where everyone wants you to drink, or everyone is drinking having a grand time?

Do you take the splurge and have a drink? Do you resist? What happens? How do you handle it?

well jasko, i just have a light beer, or a midi (smaller volume beer). I just drink that REALLY slowly and relax and talk to my friends. So i look like im drinking but im not really. no pepcid means i still go red!

1,068 Reply by Jemima

  • Registered: 2010-04-17
  • Posts: 3

Re: H2 Blockers (Tagamet, Pepcid, Zantac, Axid)

^ Before I discovered Zantac (still haven't tried Pepcid), I'd just have a half shot in a mixed drink, and drink SLOWLY. Luckily, I'm a girl so I don't feel a huge pressure to drink.

Now, I'd probably rush to the loo, pop a pill, then delay drinking for as long as I possibly can & hope for the best!

1,069 Reply by kon990

  • Registered: 2010-02-16
  • Posts: 3

Re: H2 Blockers (Tagamet, Pepcid, Zantac, Axid)

http://www.noredfaceformula.com/

Has anybody tried this? It's a website that claims to be able to cure the asian flush, just a scam though? Not really willing to dish out $37 to be told to use pepcid or something.

1,070 Reply by KRAM

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  • Registered: 2010-05-22
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Re: H2 Blockers (Tagamet, Pepcid, Zantac, Axid)

How many mg's of Pepcid Ac do you guys take?

1,071 Reply by Arnold21

  • Registered: 2010-05-26
  • Posts: 1

Re: H2 Blockers (Tagamet, Pepcid, Zantac, Axid)

I will read time to time that

  • Registered: 2010-06-02
  • Posts: 1

Re: H2 Blockers (Tagamet, Pepcid, Zantac, Axid)

Anyway, as for last night, I took 2 pills (40 mg) 30 minutes before I started drinking, and I got drunk really quickly!  I was just drinking beer, straight up PBR and then pitchers of Bud, but wow, I felt like I was in high school again.

1,073 Reply by jasko (edited by jasko 2010-06-03 18:03:47)

  • Registered: 2006-05-05
  • Posts: 70

Re: H2 Blockers (Tagamet, Pepcid, Zantac, Axid)

kon990 wrote:

http://www.noredfaceformula.com/

Has anybody tried this? It's a website that claims to be able to cure the asian flush, just a scam though? Not really willing to dish out $37 to be told to use pepcid or something.

i unfortunately wasted my money on this. [content modified by moderator. do not offer to violate copyright, people!] It has some tips, but not $37 worth..

1,074 Reply by jhawking (edited by jhawking 2010-06-04 06:39:26)

  • From: Melbourne
  • Registered: 2009-04-21
  • Posts: 27

Re: H2 Blockers (Tagamet, Pepcid, Zantac, Axid)

LoL Jasko ;)

Probably best  to keep copyright infringement less public than that, especially when people who work for the No Red Face Formula often use this forum. 

Just to clarify, this is not an Ad, rather a response to the above question.

For those who are interested in the No Red Face Formula it involves more than just taking Pepcid, its $37 after all.

It also comes with a satisfaction guarantee so I don't really understand the concern about it being a scam.  How can it be if there is a money back guarantee?

If anyone has any questions about the product don't hesitate to email me and myself or one of my colleagues will do our best to help you out.

good luck,

regards,

j

1,075 Reply by kon990

  • Registered: 2010-02-16
  • Posts: 3

Re: H2 Blockers (Tagamet, Pepcid, Zantac, Axid)

Alright jhawking you are obviously affiliated with the no red face formula website and therefore I am going to ignore you claims. The reps from that site really hound the internet (yahoo answers, forums, review sites) everywhere to try and hide any negative response put out towards their website which makes me incredibly suspicious as whether this is even a remote solution to the asian flush. so hey how about you PISS OFF.