976

Re: H2 Blockers (Tagamet, Pepcid, Zantac, Axid)

Hello Everyone!
I am so glad I've found this forum, and I've actually tried reading every single posts, but it took me 2 days to get to page 27, so I stopped. =P
I'm a 24 year old female of 100% asian decent, and I've been drinking socially for a few years now, but I usually have to keep the drinking down because I turn beet red around the second or third shot.  I'm very happy to have found about this "miracle cure" for this, and I am excited to try it out ASAP. =D
I was also very shocked to find out that the "fast heartbeating" was caused by the asian flush, I always thought that it was normal and that everybody experienced it.  I know it might sound weird, but I actually enjoy the fast heartbeat, maybe because I associate it with drinking.
But anyway! My point is, I really want to try the Pepcid before drinking, and the question I wanted to ask was, does anybody living in the US know generic brands of Pepcid? I know that Walmart usually carry an "Equate" brand of every single medicine, do they happen to have one for Pepcid, and would it be just as effective?
Thanks so much for the help, and I am super excited to go test this out. =)

Re: H2 Blockers (Tagamet, Pepcid, Zantac, Axid)

I'm from the West coast so I'm not sure if you have Safeway grocery stores around, but they have generic versions of Pepcid AC that are somewhat cheaper in price. I don't recommend taking the chewable Pepcid AC though... I just bought some a month ago and they dont seem to work as well as the Extra Strength Pepcid AC tablets.

978

Re: H2 Blockers (Tagamet, Pepcid, Zantac, Axid)

I'm still waiting on Convivia. What's the deal on this? I wish there were a number that we could contact the Raptor company and see what's going on.

Ninja wrote:

Hello Everyone!
I am so glad I've found this forum, and I've actually tried reading every single posts, but it took me 2 days to get to page 27, so I stopped. =P
I'm a 24 year old female of 100% asian decent, and I've been drinking socially for a few years now, but I usually have to keep the drinking down because I turn beet red around the second or third shot.  I'm very happy to have found about this "miracle cure" for this, and I am excited to try it out ASAP. =D
I was also very shocked to find out that the "fast heartbeating" was caused by the asian flush, I always thought that it was normal and that everybody experienced it.  I know it might sound weird, but I actually enjoy the fast heartbeat, maybe because I associate it with drinking.
But anyway! My point is, I really want to try the Pepcid before drinking, and the question I wanted to ask was, does anybody living in the US know generic brands of Pepcid? I know that Walmart usually carry an "Equate" brand of every single medicine, do they happen to have one for Pepcid, and would it be just as effective?
Thanks so much for the help, and I am super excited to go test this out. =)

I don't know of any generic brands..... but just look at what the store has in that area and get the one that has the most Famotidine.

Re: H2 Blockers (Tagamet, Pepcid, Zantac, Axid)

Hey all,

I usually take zantac on an empty stomach (usually avoid eating 2 and half to 3 hours before hand) and try to avoid eating while im drinking because when i eat even small amounts i find that when the food is digested it destroys the affect of the antacid and in a few minutes i turn red again and feel quite hot and agitated!

does anyone know any foods that are better to eat or strategies that can be done so this doesn’t happen? like maybe take a tablet and then another when eating?! I dunno, just seeing if anyone can help!

Also, does anyone still get the flushing or wake up with a very rosie face the next day after a big night out even if they have taken antacids before drinking the night before?

thanks so much!

Re: H2 Blockers (Tagamet, Pepcid, Zantac, Axid)

I tried Zantac last weekend and I still got red in the face. I took it an hour and a half before I drank but it didnt seem to help at all. I didnt eat anything as well so.... I usually use Pepcid AC extra strength and it seems to work. I get a little pink in the face after the 1st beer with pepcid, but if i chill and wait 20 minutes for the redness to go away I can usually drink the rest of the night without getting red. I'm just worried about the long term side effects of taking Pepcid AC...

Re: H2 Blockers (Tagamet, Pepcid, Zantac, Axid)

Medical Student here.  I've lurked this site for a while, but finally had some time to put up a post.

This is my form of populational medicine, I suppose.  It's tough news to hear, so if you prefer ignorance, don't read this.  There is hope though!

Just wanted to let everyone know I've been experimenting with various treatments for some while now, and I've come to the conclusion that we really should avoid alcohol as much as possible until raptor pharm comes out with their ALDH2 drug.

There is nothing that can unlink acetaldehyde from various forms of cancer.  It's almost shocking to think that we're taking this large of a risk everytime we drink.  Asians with our deficiency have scientifically replicated data indicating HIGH levels of acetaldehyde.  The risk for cancer is worse than asbestoes inhalation.  The risk for cancer is almost as bad as cigarette smoking.

Taking any of the above listed drugs will not significantly reduce the levels of acetaldehyde upon imbibing, so be patient.  If you really can't avoid drinking at the party though (through other means... i have to drive tonight, i'm on medications, just not into it tonight, i can't i'm allergic), feel free to message me and I can try to help you tailor a plan that will keep your levels of acetaldehyde to a minimum.

In the meantime, let's wait for the ALDH2 drug and celebrate when it finally goes through Phase III testing (final testing before FDA approval)!!!

Anyone live in Hawaii??? :D

Re: H2 Blockers (Tagamet, Pepcid, Zantac, Axid)

Hi everyone,
I'm 100% Chinese, male, i'm 18, about 190lb and 6'0ft. I'm one of the 50% Asian that get "Asian glow".
well i get really embarrassed sometime because my face gets super red. i read some fourm and hear that pepcid ac really works. like a month ago i took three 20 mg of pepcid and like 45 mins later started to drink. i had about 6 shots and didn't turn red which was very excited and happed. but then the next recent story was yesterday i had MickyDs (McDonalds) andi ordered 2 mc-chickens at about 5:00pm for a snack cause i was getting a bit hungry. and then i took about three 20 mg of pepcid AC at 9:00pm and started to drink at about 10:00ish and for some reason i still got the flush. my face was red and all that stuff. so then around 11:00 i decided so drink another pepcid. and that didn;t really do anything. i had about 11 beers. and couple shots of vodka. What went wrong? Why did i still turn red? i was just reading around and some people say to not eat and also take pepcid and that works.

Re: H2 Blockers (Tagamet, Pepcid, Zantac, Axid)

ok well i did some experiments. and i took one 20mg pepcid. then 30 mins later
i drank a full beer and took a shot of hennesy. well it shows that i didn't get red.
which was a good sign. then i tryed eating food. well it seems that while i was eating
i started to turn beat red. so this shows that if you do get "Asian Glow" its a good thing
to no eat. so this shows that when drinking, you should eat anything or don't eat anything before.
wait at least 3hrs to eat anything.

Re: H2 Blockers (Tagamet, Pepcid, Zantac, Axid)

I just wanted to say that I went out to drink yesterday and took 3 pills of Pepcid AC 20mg about 1 hour before going out. I felt like I didn't get any red flush in my face and I think its because I was drinking rum and coke. Usually when I drink beer, my cheeks get a pink blush to them, but tonight I didn't get any redness in my face at all. In total, I drank 5 captain&cokes and 1 jager bomb. I'm going to start drinking rum and coke from now on instead of beer... it reduces the redness in my face.

Re: H2 Blockers (Tagamet, Pepcid, Zantac, Axid)

Hey all,

I usually take zantac on an empty stomach (usually avoid eating 2 and half to 3 hours before hand) and try to avoid eating while im drinking because when i eat even small amounts i find that when the food is digested it destroys the affect of the antacid and in a few minutes i turn red again and feel quite hot and agitated! i think this seems to be a very common thing!

does anyone know any foods that are better to eat or strategies that can be done so this doesn’t happen? like maybe take a tablet and then another when eating?! I dunno, just seeing if anyone can help!

Also, does anyone still get the flushing or wake up with a very rosie face the next day after a big night out even if they have taken antacids before drinking the night before? i find alot of the time my face gets really red appearing so sun burnt the day after?!

thanks so much!

and nohxtk1, is there actually a drug getting manufactured?

986 (edited by jasko 2009-01-11 10:34:00)

Re: H2 Blockers (Tagamet, Pepcid, Zantac, Axid)

Yes they are. It's called Convivia. I believe there's a thread on it somewhere on this forum.

I'm wondering if this Convivia is going to be a pill or what? I was hoping they could make some sort of injection for us that will last a while haha.

987 (edited by sgtslahter 2009-02-26 16:05:03)

Re: H2 Blockers (Tagamet, Pepcid, Zantac, Axid)

Ninja wrote:

Hello Everyone!
IMy point is, I really want to try the Pepcid before drinking, and the question I wanted to ask was, does anybody living in the US know generic brands of Pepcid?

COSTCO
Kirkland Signatureâ„¢ Acid Controller Maximum Strength 170 Tablets
Famotidine Tablets, USP 20 mg Acid Reducer
Item # 295735
$10.29

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.as … mp;topnav=

Also, in my experience, I find that drinking Miller Lite is best for me.  Heavy beers that are dark in color, like Hefeweizen or Red Ales are no good.  Same with wine and most hard liquor, still turn me red.  I found Miller Lite works best, so I stick with it.  Even some other light beers, like Coors Light, wil turn me red.  My advice is to just find whatever turns you red the least frequently and stick with it.

Also, I find that if I haven't drank in a while (i.e. if I don't drink all week and then drink on Friday night), I rarely turn red.  However, if I drink again the next night (Saturday night) I usually ALWAYS turn red.  So if I know I'm going to a wedding, bachelor party, etc. that is being held on a Saturday, I usually don't drink on the Friday night before and I stand a much better chance of not turning beet red.

So in conclusion, try different medications, try different types and brands of alcohol, and experiment with drinking/not drinking consecutive nights and see what works best!

PS I'm not sure what to think about the possible risk of increased cancer for those with Asian Flush Syndrome... obviously, heavy drinking isn't good for anyone.  They used to say having one glass of wine was good and now they are saying even one glass of red wine a night leads to increased risk of cancer (for women, at least).  It is probably best to never drink, smoke, do drugs, eat meat, eat lots of fatty foods/sweets, etc.  For me, the only vice of those I have is drinking (and just on the weekends).  Hey, you gotta live a little as well.  You can't just hide in your room your whole life... yeah, you may live to be 100 but then you'll look back and have missed out on all the fun!  Or worse yet, you live a totally healthy life and still get cancer at 50 while your friend who smokes a pack a day lives to be 80!  Drinking isn't the only way to have fun, but for many people, especially in their 20's, it's a huge social aspect.

Until I see hard evidence that we are at an extreme risk of cancer if we are subject to AFS, I think drinking occassionally is fine if you are safe about it.   Just one man's opinion.

Re: H2 Blockers (Tagamet, Pepcid, Zantac, Axid)

nohxtk1 wrote:

Medical Student here.  I've lurked this site for a while, but finally had some time to put up a post.

This is my form of populational medicine, I suppose.  It's tough news to hear, so if you prefer ignorance, don't read this.  There is hope though!

Just wanted to let everyone know I've been experimenting with various treatments for some while now, and I've come to the conclusion that we really should avoid alcohol as much as possible until raptor pharm comes out with their ALDH2 drug.

There is nothing that can unlink acetaldehyde from various forms of cancer.  It's almost shocking to think that we're taking this large of a risk everytime we drink.  Asians with our deficiency have scientifically replicated data indicating HIGH levels of acetaldehyde.  The risk for cancer is worse than asbestoes inhalation.  The risk for cancer is almost as bad as cigarette smoking.

Taking any of the above listed drugs will not significantly reduce the levels of acetaldehyde upon imbibing, so be patient.  If you really can't avoid drinking at the party though (through other means... i have to drive tonight, i'm on medications, just not into it tonight, i can't i'm allergic), feel free to message me and I can try to help you tailor a plan that will keep your levels of acetaldehyde to a minimum.

In the meantime, let's wait for the ALDH2 drug and celebrate when it finally goes through Phase III testing (final testing before FDA approval)!!!

Anyone live in Hawaii??? :D

How long could it possibly be till this drug comes out months? years? never?

Re: H2 Blockers (Tagamet, Pepcid, Zantac, Axid)

An article just came out today about Asian drinkers at oesophageal cancer risk:

"CHICAGO (Reuters) - Asians who get red in the face when they drink too much alcohol have a higher risk of getting cancer of the oesophagus, US and Japanese researchers said on Monday.

They said about a third of East Asians -- Chinese, Japanese and Koreans -- have an enzyme deficiency that causes their skin to flush when they drink alcohol, and this trait puts them at higher risk of developing oesophageal cancer, an especially deadly type with five-year survival rates of 12 to 31 percent.

"People are fairly well aware of this physical characteristic, which is sometimes called the Asian alcohol response or the Asian flush," said Philip Brooks of the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism, whose study appears in the Public Library of Science journal PLoS Medicine.

"I don't think people are aware that it is a warning sign for being at risk of esophageal cancer when they drink alcohol. That is what we wanted to point out," said Brooks, who worked on the study with Dr. Akira Yokoyama from the Kurihama Alcohol Center in Japan.

Brooks estimates that at least 540 million people have this alcohol-related increased risk for esophageal cancer.

He said the flushing response occurs in people who have a variation in the ALDH gene, which makes an enzyme called aldehyde dehydrogenase 2 that helps the body metabolize alcohol.

People with two copies of this gene variant have such extreme symptoms of flushing, nausea, and racing heart beat that they avoid drinking alcohol.

"They are basically at somewhat reduced risk of developing esophageal cancer because drinking alcohol for anybody is a risk factor for esophageal cancer," Brooks said in a telephone interview.

"The concern is for people who have one copy," he said, because they can tolerate drinking.

"In general, people with one copy have about a six to tenfold increase in the incidence of esophageal cancer."

Brooks said doctors should ask patients of East Asian descent of they have a history of facial flushing when they drink.

And he said university health professionals need to be aware of the link between facial flushing and cancer risk since many young people experiment with heavy drinking in college."



At the end of the article, there is a link that can take u for the full study :
http://medicine.plosjournals.org/perlse … ed.1000050

I strongly recommend you guys to read it when u have time.
scary stuff.


one main thing that caught my attention is this graph showing the risk of getting esophageal cancer between a normal and a ALDH2 deficiency drink on their alcohol intake : Low, Moderate, Heavy. 
With ALDH2 deficiency:
Low alcohol intaker has a 3%-20% odds ratio for esophageal cancer
Moderate alcohol intaker has a 10%-150% odds ratio for esophageal cancer
Heavy alcohol intaker has a 20%-200% odds ratio for esophageal cancer

(here is the link to the graph :
http://medicine.plosjournals.org/archiv … 005-M.jpg)

underneath it states from the study

"Alcohol consumption amounts: low, 1–8.9 units/week; moderate, 9–17.9 units/week; high, ≥18 units/week; where 1 unit = 22 g of ethanol. The referent (OR = 1) is never/rare drinkers (<1 unit/week) of either genotype. Odds ratios were adjusted for age, frequency of drinking strong alcohol beverages, pack-years of smoking, and intake of fruit and green-yellow vegetables, based on a multiple logistic regression model. Error bars are 95% confidence intervals. The graph is based on the data in [25]."

i did a google search on how many standard drinks is in 22g of ethanol (1 unit), i found that 1 standard drink contains about 10g ethanol (please correct me if im wrong here!!) so to classify as a low alcohol intake drinker: 1-8.9 units/week = you can have upto 17 standard drinks per week?  lets say a full strength beer is about 1.3 standard drink, a low alcohol intaker can drink upto 12 beers a week?
i am trying to work out if i am a low or a moderate drinker.  does the calculations above sounds right to you guys??

990

Re: H2 Blockers (Tagamet, Pepcid, Zantac, Axid)

Man, that makes me not want to drink at all. :(

I wonder how Convivia will work then?

ps- am I the only one that keeps getting errors when trying to post on here?

Re: H2 Blockers (Tagamet, Pepcid, Zantac, Axid)

Hey, great forum, real glad I found it

Just wondering what the UK substitutes for Pepcid would be? Willing to give it a good try until this Convivia stuff is released

Thanks

Re: H2 Blockers (Tagamet, Pepcid, Zantac, Axid)

so basically, i live in canada, i take pepcid, and its legal here, all is well. BUT i'm moving to australia in september, and i just found out famotidine is only available by perscription? does that include Amfomox and Rani that you were talking about? I've tried no-name brands that just contain famotidine and theywork the same. However zantac does not seem to work for me. I could bring a couple packs of it in my bag when i come over but that will not last very long. Please let me know if i can get famotidine when i move

993

Re: H2 Blockers (Tagamet, Pepcid, Zantac, Axid)

StopRanting wrote:

10. FINAL WORRIES AND QUESTIONS UNANSWERED

In technical language:

1. Kman made some particularly good points about the fact that H2-blockers may not actually be slowing the metabolism of alcohol (thereby allowing acetaldehyde metabolism to keep up) but instead simply targeting the histamines that are produced as a result of elevated acetaldehyde levels.
2. This suggestion was made in light of the fact that ethanol levels in subjects were not elevated despite taking famotidine. However, these studies are from some time ago – Kman if you are still around, could you possibly look up some recent ones perhaps circa 2005-2008?
3. If this is indeed the way the famotidine is operating, perhaps it is a dangerous drug as drinkers will still have elevated acetaldehyde level but simply not realize.
4. A side note that was worth noting is that according to Kman’s research, it is likely ranitidine is ‘better’ for you as alcohol levels were increased in subjects when taking ranitidine suggesting it inhibits the enzyme alcohol dehydrogenase.

Lovely summary. And as requested, I have crawled out of my hole to give you some updates....

There are 2 recent reports which confirm my earlier position. Both by the same author.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1920 … d_RVDocSum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1920 … d_RVDocSum

Essentially, I think he summarises old info.

Firstly he confirms that some H2 Blockers have an effect on ADH (the enzyme that breaks down acetaldehyde). And again Ranitidine is named. But this is nothing new.  Old studies as far back as 1991 confirm "at therapeutic doses in vivo, the degree of inhibition by cimetidine and ranitidine should be significant and comparable, that by nizatidine should be smaller, and that by famotidine should be negligible." So we know for a fact that Ranitidine has SOME inhibitory effect on ADH but not famotidine (Pepcid). The second report states:

"Increased blood acetaldehyde resulting from abnormalities of alcohol dehydrogenase genotype in the Orientals population can release histamine from mast cells and basophiles, which induces the hypersensitivity reactions (flushing). These reactions may be blocked by antihistamine drugs. H2-receptor antagonists influence on the ethanol metabolism by the inhibition of the activity of alcohol metabolizing enzymes in the stomach and liver."

So essentially, this author surmises that the H2 blockers work by inhibiting ADH. Now, I don't think he has the whole picture, or at least the whole picture relating to famotidine. Since he himself and other studies have found that famotidine has no or negligible effect on ADH, there must be some other mechanism by which famotidine works. Whatever it is, as far as the studies show, there is nothing to show that famotidine stops the production of acetaldehyde. It may stop the symptoms (the histamine release), but not the production of acetaldehyde, which is the killer carcinogen.

Another poster, nohxtk1, seems to have come on board recently, and he is a med student. He seems to share my view, and would probably be in a better position, with his training, to find more studies, or explain things.

So let me continue my nagging crusade of warning all of you not to get carried away. Even ranitidine doesn't completely inhibit ADH, and if anything just lowers levels of acetaldehyde (not sure to what extent).

Alcohol is dangerous to asian flushers.  The link to cancer is very very clearly established.

Conviva sounds promising though!

994

Re: H2 Blockers (Tagamet, Pepcid, Zantac, Axid)

someone call Raptor and find out what's the deal with Convivia! :(

Re: H2 Blockers (Tagamet, Pepcid, Zantac, Axid)

Quick introduction,

I'm born in Taiwan, grew up and live in Sweden. I've always suffered from redness when drinking which has caused me a lot of social anxiety during my teenage years. I've been using Pepcid AC for little over a year now and it works just perfect for me. I still turn red if I try to eat something while drinking and even sometimes the day after depending on the amount of alcohol consumed the night before. (I'm assuming that I have the single copy gene since I can drink a fair amount of alcohol without barfing).

I just yesterday read about the elevated risk of incurring cancer. Been researching all morning on the Internet and now I'm thinking - both public humiliation and penalty of death - just terrific. 

Does anyone know of any statistics on this esophageal cancer among the azn population? I mean, if getting cancer is 6-10 times more likely if you have this deficiency and the deficiency is more common among azn ppl - then the actual number of azn ppl with this type of cancer should be significantly larger than the worldwide average - don't you agree?

I'm also wondering if having 5-6 beers during the week-end is considered as such "heavy drinking" increasing the cancer risk as mentioned above...

Apologies for any crappy English.

Cheers from Sweden and someone who is not ready to give up alcohol altogether (yet).

Re: H2 Blockers (Tagamet, Pepcid, Zantac, Axid)

I've been reading about Alda-1, which is a recently developed compound that is designed to increase acetaldehyde dehydrogenase (ALDH) activity.  The research is being done at Stanford, and I emailed the person in charge (Dr. Mochley-Rosen), and heres the reply-

Thank you for your interest. At the moment, we continue our academic research to
determine the benefit of activating ALDH2 in both wildtype and ALDH2*2 mutant
animals. We focus on diseases where people with this mutation have a
disproportionate incidence, such as esophageal cancer (see Plos article from
last month), neurodegenerative diseases, higher ethanol intoxication and of
course nitroglycerin insensitivity (see Stammler's work). Since Alda-1 increases
the biological activity of both wildtype and mutant - the potential of this
drugs as enhancor of the natural mechanism of cytoprotection is quite large.
Lots to do, as you can see. Hope this addresses your question.

From what I've read, this is still going to take a while, but from what I know, this is a real solution.  Both H2 antagonists and the Convivia drug currently being developed by Raptor work by slowing down alcohol metabolism, whereas Alda-1 (which is being developed primarily for heart attack damage) works by increasing ALDH activity.  The biggest advantage is that it specifically increases the activity of mutant ALDH, which is the main issue.  It seems to be a long time in the making, though-

Re: H2 Blockers (Tagamet, Pepcid, Zantac, Axid)

I keep posting this, but I'll mention it again- I've noticed that this forum has over 20,000,000 hits so far.  Obviously some are repeat viewers, but still, if each person interested in a cure (I know there are a lot) contributed $1, it could be donated to research.  $20,000,000 sound like something?  Also, given that the compound ALREADY EXISTS and receives funding, I think it would make a difference-

Re: H2 Blockers (Tagamet, Pepcid, Zantac, Axid)

This forum does not have over 20,000,000 hits. My WEBSITE (echeng.com) does.

Re: H2 Blockers (Tagamet, Pepcid, Zantac, Axid)

heres my story...

i get the same symptoms as you all...flush redness, throbbing, head aches etc...

i can drink and not totally get shit faced...but i do have to take it slow or else...

just took 2 pepicd ac 20 mg (safeway generic)....
waited 1 hour and finished off a bud light in 30 mins.

my head feels a bit pressured...but i dont feel as red and no infamous throbbing or face feeling like it is on fire...
i am a bit flushed, but significantly less then before...

i do feel a bit more buzzed than normal (after only one beer), but all in all i would say the pepcid ac
made a SIGNIFICANT difference...

all in all i would rate it a 80% decrease in my symptoms.

i need not tell you all, if i normally chugged a beer i would be suffering...

i cant say i am devoid of the "glow" but it definitely helped...

i no degenerate, but if i were out on the town with friends, i definitely could have
another few drinks...

1,000

Re: H2 Blockers (Tagamet, Pepcid, Zantac, Axid)

you guys are lucky pepcid works for you, nothing at all works for me :( im a white caucasian male 19 years old my life is sorrounded by drinking. I have hope for convivia but im thinking the recession is slowing things down for funding.

it's so hard to live a normal life haha