1 Reply by uriel

(1,275 replies, posted in Focused Discussion)

Australian Guy wrote:

Can anyone answer these questions - I am about to travel to Hong Kong, Shanghai and Croatia for a holiday.  I hope they sell Pepcid AC there because i will stock up.
Can anyone tell me if Pepcid AC is sold in Hong Kong, Shanghai or Croatia??????????

With a quick search I found the following brand names for famotidine in Hong-Kong: Famopsin, Famox, Pepcidine, Pepzan, Quamatel, Ulceran
I don't know whether or not any of these are presecription only or not, but I'm sure Google can anser that quickly, too.
I found this website:
http://www.egeneralmedical.com/rxlist00000301.html
which lists all international major brand names for famotidine and the countries in which they're sold.  Again, you'd have to do individual searches to determine whether or not they're over-the-counter.

One thing I think we should stress here is that buying medicine and transporting it over borders is illegal in most countries and certainly is for the US.  I'm not taking any moral high ground here, not saying I would or wouldn't try too, but I think we should make point that clear.  At the very least, I would be careful.  One other point I've made earlier is that you won't get enough to last very long, so finding a legitimate source in your own country is still better.  Famotidine has a finite shelf life.  And transporting large quantities of anything illegally is going to increase your chances of serious punishment if caught.

Steph wrote:

But really what I want to be able to drink is wine... anyone have any tips on drinking wine and not going red?? I still go red from wine even if I take pills (I just go less red). Any other alcohol is fine...

Steph, thanks for note; let us know if you do hear anything else from your doctor.
I go red from wine, but famotidine (30min before, 20mg) definitely helps me.  But I do know that red wine is worse than white, so you might want to try going white-only.  I have friends who get a serious reaction to red wine, after only a half glass, not nearly enough for the alcohol to have an effect, and they end up vomiting.  I think it's because of some tannins (certain class of proteins) in red wine (but not in white) that either cause a reaction themselves or interact with the alcohol somehow.
There's definitely similar reactions with certain types of beer: dark beer, like Guiness, is worse than light, like Corona.  Also ales (which appear cloudy because of yeast products that are leftover from fermentation) are worse than lagers (which appear clear).  Dark liqueurs like Schnapps are worse than colorless alcohol, like gin and vodka.  I think these differences are also because of tannins or other compounds that are causing a reaction, either alone or by interacting with the alcohol.  Of course, everybody is different though, so there's not strict rule.
So I guess my advice would be to try famotidine with some very light white wines, like Chardonnay or some sweet Rieslings.  Avoid anything that has been aged in oak barrels, and go for sweet rather than "dry" or "acidic" tasting.  And avoid anything with high alcohol content (I think typical is like 12-13%).

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2 Reply by uriel

(1,275 replies, posted in Focused Discussion)

Steph wrote:

I told my doc straight-up what I wanted the famo for - he was more than happy to help me out. Lying to your doc is not a good idea, he'll want to know why you want repeats on the prescription every few months! ;)

I completely agree.  Steph, so you have consulted your doctor about using famotidine while drinking?  Have you asked him (or her) about side effects, dosage, and possible risks like cancer?  I'd be very interested to hear what he would have to say, I think we all would.  And let me just admit right now how much of a git I am because I'm too pathetic to go up to my own doctor and say "I want to get pissed without turning red, so I take Pepcid".  Steph, you're a better person than I.

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3 Reply by uriel

(1,275 replies, posted in Focused Discussion)

Australian Guy wrote:

AUSTRALIAN GUY HERE:

I am an aussie guy and in australia we dont have pepcid.  Are there any australians here?  Can you get pepcid???

For everyone who can't get Pepcid AC because they're not in the US, this may be a stupid question, but have you tried just getting famotidine or some other H2 blocker under some other proprietary name?  I know in Australia they have Rani and Amfamox, both are famotidine brand names.  There's literally nothing else in Pepcid AC (that's active).  I'm sure there's something similiar sold in every country since they're so effective.  I guess the main problem is that they're mostly by prescription only, but you're probably better off trying to get a doctor prescribe some to you than trying to get a stranger to send you some (which is illegal, and you really wouldn't get enough to last very long anyway).  I know it sucks, but I can't think of a better way. . .

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4 Reply by uriel

(1,275 replies, posted in Focused Discussion)

jasko wrote:

4. Get your body to make acetaldehyde dehydrogenase (why hasn't anyone freakin' tried this?!)
How might you do this?

Well, this is one for the chemists to cook up, but it's not impossible.  AD is an enzyme, just another protein in your body.  It has been purified a number of times, from plants and animals, and can be synthesized.  So, it's just a matter of getting some form of it into your bloodstream.  It's hard because most large proteins get digested when you take them orally, but there are ways around that (e.g. ingest an inactive precursor that is only active once it's metabolized).  Personally, I'm enraged that pharmaceutical companies haven't devoted all of their resources to curing The Flush.  After all, sure AIDS, cancer, heart disease kill millions, but they simply don't compare to getting f-up, turning maroon, and feeling like you just ran a damn marathon.  There's gotta be a nobel prize in curing the ails of millions of sober asians just trying to get wasted.

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5 Reply by uriel

(63 replies, posted in Focused Discussion)

Fieraloca wrote:

...I came accross a chemical called N-acetylcysteine. This chemical is used to de-toxify your body from all kinds of things flu, bronchitis, mercury poisoning, good for smokers, etc. in addition to helping the conversion of Acetaldehyde into acetic acid.

So apparently this chemical (sold over the counter) is not only good for your body, but it should help avoid asian flush, no?

I have do NOT have a background in medicine, so all of you who understand this better, could you confirm whether i'm right oe wrong?

I'm no expert, but as far as I know, acetylcysteine is an antioxidant (or rather it promotes the creation of more glutathione, a good antioxidant).  Antioxidants are good at getting rid of toxins, specifically toxins that are oxidizers, like metal ions (mercury, etc.).
Taking antioxidants is good for getting rid of some toxins, but I've never heard of taking acetylcysteine for the flu or bronchitis.
I read something about the possibility of acetylcysteine being used to remove acetaldehyde, but I can't find any real data supporting it.  Another problem is that acetylcystein is hard to ingest (it tastes terrible and doesn't get absorbed)--it's usually given throug an IV or inhaled (because it breaks up mucus in the lungs).
Hope this helped.

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6 Reply by uriel

(1,275 replies, posted in Focused Discussion)

JayOnTheRocks wrote:

So if alcohol causes throat cancer for PPl like us who lack the ALDH2 wouldn't it be obvious to conclude that its caused either by contact or fumes from the alcohol to our throats. Can you maybe then drink somthing to coat the throat b4 hand?? like Pepto Bismo or maybe 2 tsp of cooking oil?

As far as I understand it, it isn't contact with alcohol that causes cancer.  In fact, it's not even the alcohol, directly.  It's acetaldehyde, a chemical made when your body breaks down alcohol (non-flushers have ALDH2, or acetaldehyde dehydrogenase, that breaks down acetaldehyde, we don't).  So coating your throat wouldn't do much I don't think, as long as the alcohol gets digested (which happens in your stomach and intestine).  Sorry for all the chemistry.
To prevent flushing you have to:
1. Prevent alcohol from being digested (which means you don't get drunk, which is kinda the point)
2. Remove acetaldehyde from your body (drinking lots of water will do this)
3. Block the immune response to acetaldehyde (which is what H2 blockers probably do)
4. Get your body to make acetaldehyde dehydrogenase (why hasn't anyone freakin' tried this?!)
5. Not drink (pretending you're Mormon works for this)
Of all of these, H2 blockers have the highest risk for cancer.
I was thinking eating a lot of fiber might prevent too much alcohol from being digested, or maybe even a laxative, which may have its own problems.

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7 Reply by uriel

(137 replies, posted in Focused Discussion)

imsnow wrote:

Ok. I used to date a surgeon and I asked him about the hangover pills. He laughed outloud. Dehydration causes a hangover and there is no pill you can take to prevent hangovers from excessive drinking. Those dumb pills are a marketing gimick. End of story.

No disrespect, but I don't think that's all there is to it.  Hangovers are caused by dehydration, but dehydration can also mean loss of electrolytes.  That's why people drink gatorade instead of pure water when running marathons or when they lose extreme amounts of water.  Electrolytes are just salts, like sodium and potassium.  That's all hangover pills are--they're a mix of essential salts and vitamins.

Anyway, my suggestion for a new topic is "Personal Experiences", with a complete resorting of previous posts to the main threads.  I recently found this site and I thought it was tiresome to wade through all the posts to "H2 Blockers" thread (which has like 95% of all posts).  It's great people want to add their own experiences, but it's sometimes tough to find a lot of good info, which I think is the point of all this.  Instead of everyone posting a "hey, it worked for me" or "I'm asian I get flushed too", maybe you could implement a survey where people just said whether or not it worked, to what degree and after how long.  Then we could have a seperate thread for new info.

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8 Reply by uriel

(1,275 replies, posted in Focused Discussion)

After reading as much of this forum as I could, I just wanted to say thanks to everyone who has tried to be helpful to others with advice.  I also wanted to say that I think the post by c0m1c a few months ago shows what a jackass he is.  If you don't think it's a problem then cool, you have nothing to say.

I haven't tried Pepcid, which seems like the only reasonable solution.  But I wanted to bring up the problem of cancer that keeps getting mentioned: I think if we're all gonna agree that this is the best (i.e. easiest, most effective) solution, then maybe we should give it some serious thought?  I find it scary to be using a drug that specifically says not to ingest it with alcohol every time before drinking.  And cancer isn't something you drop dead of right after drinking.  It takes years of exposure to carcinogens and it may only increase risk of colon, liver and oral cancer, so we may not know for a while.  If people are going to use famotidine regularly with alcohol, I think we should at least consider the risks.

These are my thoughts on cancer:
Acetaldehyde (what causes blushing, etc., metabolized from alcohol) is definitely thought to be a carcinogen.  It's sold to chemists with that precaution on it.  I searched clinical studies for anything useful and I found one study (Cancer Letters, 2006, June 4).  It says there is a definite link between throat cancer and lack of the ALDH2 gene (what causes blushing) in alcoholics.  It says this "enhances the link between acetaldehyde exposure and cancer".  That is some scary shit and gives me serious pause.

I think there's a possibility that Pepcid will make things worse . . . it's supposed to make you more drunk, so it could also be increasing blood level acetaldehyde, therefore increase your risk of cancer.

Anyway, I'm gonna try it myself at some point, but I just don't think it's a permanent solution, you know?  Doing most things a few times probably won't do anything, but once a week who knows?  People should be careful and maybe someone should at least ask a doctor if we're recommending this to hundreds of people.  At the very least, I wouldn't be taking more than the recommended dose and I definitely wouldn't be mixing Pepcid with other stuff.

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