umm… back in high school, i thought the only difference between chinese and taiwanese people was their political choices. but after having taken a graduate poli-sci course in the history of china and having two close taiwanese-american friends, i’ve changed my mind. my parents probably wouldn’t appreciate me posting this, since they’re very much mainland-chinese-born-having-moved-to-taiwan-during-the-war chinese americans, but what they hey.

taiwanese people have been in taiwan for several generations now. one might argue that japan is, by ethnicity, chinese as well. i mean, hell, they all came from the motherland, didn’t they? and they use chinese characters vastly throughout their language. but i think it’s clear that the japanese and chinese are separated by more than just their ethnicities.

despite what people may think, taiwan does have a distinct culture and people, in my humble opinion. although they may be a young culture and ethnic group, i do believe they have distinguished themselves from mainland china.

now, whether or not taiwan should be independent, i’m not going to argue that here. one might say that since i said they have their own culture and ethnic group, that i’m saying that they should be independent. but china is obviously made up of a lot of ethnic groups… tibetans, for one. i’m not saying taiwan and china should be united either. i’d rather not touch upon that debate. but i felt i should add this disclaimer.

this may not make much sense because (my usual argument) i’m very tired… my parents woke me up this morning. sigh so, if it doesn’t make any sense, that’s my excuse…

one more thing… i don’t consider myself chinese-american. i am a chinese american. i think there’s a distinction between the two that needs to be noted here. my ethnicity is chinese, but my nationality is american. i am, therefore, adjective: chinese; noun: american.

eric, you’re right. taiwanese, chinese… agreement is not forseeable. you, being taiwanese, will always see it from your side. and me, who considers herself chinesehyphenAMERICAN, will admittedly, always see it with only half interest and limited knowledge, and have only a displaced mainland china perspective placed upon me from my parents.

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p>amabelle, i do consider myself chinese-american, with the hyphen, because i have never lived as one without the other. though i was born in taiwan, i was raised in america, with a chinese family, and a mixture of chinese and american influences, society, values, education, etc. i do not exist without the other half. i would not know how to be only chinese, or only american. i am completely a bizarre mixture of the two, chinese-american.

hi eric,

i’m glad you decided to confront the ylogics and the chinese/taiwanese issue on your site.

there’d been some talks about the chinese/taiwanese issue on the rice bowl journals discussion boards, but they have been intelligently presented and with a more positive tone, just like here.

i am offended just like you in regards to the ylogics journal entry. bottom line: his/her words ARE mean and offensive. no doubt about that… and indicates just how inept and misguided her words are…

i don’t like the word HATE, especially when used that way against any other country, nationality, ethnicity, or otherwise…

maybe it would be nice to get an apology from him/her… but i suppose that won’t happen.

on the internet, people can write what they feel like writing on their journals and blogs… but, since the internet is totally public, one has to consider what one writes to some degree.

in this case, anyone saying that they HATE taiwanese is asking for trouble. it’s simply not cool… and it reflects the level of intelligence and wisdom of that person.

what goes around comes around… this has been said so many times… but, it’s true.

hi brother and friends. interesting conversation here. tibet was mentioned as an example of a distinct ethnic group in china. keep in mind that it’s exactly the right example to use in a discussion about taiwan for a different reason: because it’s a region in which china has imposed brute force against the will of the majority.

Umm, no. There is a lot of Taiwanese living where I was living @ the time and they are all the same. I know that there is some that isn’t like that but in my opinion the majority is. Besides just everywhere in China you go like Shang Hai and Beijing Taiwanese all acted like that. I never seen one that never acted like they were superior.
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Hey, Emma.

You know, I’ve been discriminated against for my ethnicity in the past, but I never turned around to sling it back at other people (especially at other Asian Americans). That would have made me just as bad as the people who were being racist towards me. On your page, you talk about being more “polite” to African Americans. You say things like, “This is gay.” At the same time, you disrespect an entire group of people for no good reason. Don’t you think that’s a bit hypocritical?

Maybe you’ll understand when you grow up and become more educated/open-minded.

yeah — life’s exciting, huh? :)

shakes head

"I never seen one that never acted like they were superior."



Hmm, does anyone else get really annoyed when they see prejudiced, blanket statements like that made? =/ sigh

By the way, I meant to write "ignant" instead of "ignorant." It’s been noted by two people so far (by Ying Yang herself, and by one of my friends). It’s common wordplay — you know, using the meaning of the word itself. What’s it called when you do that, anyway?

Whew.

Thank God I’m only a half-breed . You purebreds have so many issues ;) haha

Like you Eric, the whole Chinese vs. Taiwanese thing is something that I usually don’t talk about because it’s just an inflammatory issue.

Don’t get me wrong, I have many friends who consider themselves "Taiwanese" distinct from "Chinese", Speaking as one of those "Chinese"-Americans whose parents were born in Taiwan (grandparents emigrated in the late ’40s), I’ve always wondered (out of ignorance, I guess — or is that ignance? =) ), where do people draw the line as far as shedding their old "ethnicity" or "culture" and adopting a "new" one. I’m not trolling, but genuinely interested.

Would Han Chinese who emigrated to Taiwan in the 1700s be "Taiwanese"? The 1800s? The 1900s?

It’s sort of like the old philosphical question of if you replace your body with artificial substitutes, when do you cease to exist — when does your identity no longer apply. Well, that’s not a perfect analogy, but I’m a neither a sociologist nor a philosopher. =)

furthermore, the taiwanese independence movement has always been tied up with the shady politics of race/ethnicity hatred, from the “liking of Japanese colonization” to the instinctive contempt that Japanized “native” Taiwanese feel toward less fortunate Chinese mainlanders during the early periods, up to today’s infamous attitudes toward Chinese mainland migrants that border on Nazism.
the scary thing is, all of this is reflexive. so, it is only a slight exaggeration for ylogics to point out that “all of a sudden, POW, i’m not just TAIWANESE, I’m BETTER than you,” because this is precisely the thinking underlying the worst strain of a misguided politcal movement that is Taiwan independence.

it hardly matters where i am writing this from. furthermore, popularity with a particular interest group has nothing to do with this.

look, i am asking serious questions that some people would rather not answer, but i am not trying to attack anyone. i choose my words carefully, which is why I say the superiority attitude belongs to the “worst strain” of the taiwan independence movement. now in fact, it is a strain that is most prevalent among overseas native “taiwanese” and most often picked up by impressionable american-born “taiwanese” kids who don’t know any better.
i am not arguing the merits of taiwan independence – the political movement – except to say (as i wrote) that it is “misguided” — that is an entirely different topic. so i take a side on that issue, but that was hardly the main content of my previous two posts.
btw, as a side note, i suggest you exercise control over the ‘blood feud’ argument of independence, as there is simply no end to that argument. do you know that many many soldiers from taiwan during WWII VOLUNTEERED to join japan’s army (LTH and his bro were two) and killed chinese on the mainland?

i take no one to be a fool. even in ylogic’s parody of an argument, it is understood that there exists a very specific subset of all Taiwanese for whom her observations are apt.

how big that group is only the Taiwanese know in their conscience. while ylogic may exaggerate, it is no exaggeration to say that there are large legitimately operated organizations representing many Taiwanese that, per se, or through their leading ranks, or through their rhetoric, expouse in a very real and active way the belief that mainland Chinese are inferior in every way. how do you suppose that should be interpreted by any neutral observer?

as for an opinion, in some ways, it’s like religion. people tend not to give up previously acquired perspectives easily, because that’s what “makes” sense, as in, the perspective provides the context and rules for making sense.
perspectives always need to be challenged. if one does not risk them for fear of the possibility that they may turn out to be unworthy, causing the loss of “sense”, then what good are such perspectives? they become arbitrary choices of no merit.

worse, when rational discourse is swallowed by emotion, people forget all consequences. whom or what groups this typifies is left to the reader’s own consideration.

i simply offer a challenge that needs no response but only introspection: why do you believe the things you believe?

• it was really a reminder for everyone… including me. as for you specifically, i think you’ve been more than reasonable.
  
  
• i am completely aware of the last point.
  
  
• anyway, a little lighter chit chat… didn’t know you were a cs grad here; very nice. you should visit again sometime… maybe alum week or something…